What does this mean? In conclusion, something could come from nothing but equally not become at all. The theistic argument simply put is that everything has to have a cause, (something can not come from nothing) so therefore the universe had to have a cause, and that cause is god. It explains that we can almost always get something from nothing, even if the religious community claim only a deity can make something from nothing they cannot or will be unwilling to define what nothing is. Nothing comes from nothing,Nothing ever could. ((Krauss, A Universe from Nothing, xiii.)). Plants grew, adapted, and expanded just like humans do on earth. It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe comes to exist. In 1960 the Princeton physicist—and subsequent Nobel Prize winner—Eugene Wigner raised a fundamental question: Why did the natural world always—so far as we know—obey laws of mathematics? Anyway, recently i have started to believe in a creator again as i have found no other explanation for our existence? He just always existed Ok, then the laws of physics could have always existed. Atomists (like Democritus) believed that motion was possible. Well, that's not really accurate. Between atoms is a void of nothing. 0. Nothing comes from nothing is a philosophical dictum first argued by Parmenides. A clue to the answer is in the Bible for those that look for it! Where did that first cell come from? But Carrier replied to my point with this statement: Oh yes, "out of nothing, nothing comes" is another one. While the question seemed all-important and pertinent to the ancients, what we now know about the nature of the universe renders it obsolete. If nothing comes from nothing then even God had to have something to start with! The Universe Created Itself. These guys have come up with the first rigorous proof that the Big Bang could indeed have occurred spontaneously because of quantum fluctuations. The science is complicated, and so is the theory. In order for there to be something between two atoms, something must exist. Krauss has stated that “Science is only truly consistent with an atheistic worldview…” I’m sure Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler, Joseph Lister, James Young Simpson, Samuel F.B. Can something come from nothing? Whether or not they actually do appear from nothing, it’s disputed whether virtual particles are actually real. When put in a modern context, like discussing the Big Bang and “Something coming from nothing,” YEC’s will have numerous issues trying to use this concept. The following is his starting point upon which he builds his worldview: [M]ost of the energy in the universe resides in some mysterious, now inexplicable form permeating all of empty space. Dec 2, 2011 #21. Can Something Come From Nothing? Lyrics by Richard Rodgers.)) But is that the only possibility? I was searching for an old copy of a popular science magazine that had a small sentence in a history of 20th century scientists article. On the centenary of James Clerk Maxwell’s birth, Albert Einstein described Maxwell’s work as the “‘most profound and the most fruitful that physics has experienced since the time of Newton.’ Einstein, when he visited the University of Cambridge in 1922, was told by his host that he had done great things because he stood on Newton’s shoulders; Einstein replied: ‘No I don’t. For example, if we were to put existence and nonexistence in complementary sets, linguistically we treat them as both existing. Now at this point, if you are not mathematically minded or familiar with things like Limitations then you are right now rocking back and forth in your chair questioning existence (maybe I’m projecting my own experience after dealing with this). You can conjure particles from a vacuum under the right conditions. So I will first try and portray it with a Proof (think Geometry) and then write out for those who hated high school logic puzzles. Together with various other more technical properties, this led Tryon to suggest that the universe was created from nothing or, more precisely, what physicists call the vacuum state. He has been described as the father of modern physics. And if you can’t create something, you can’t get anything. And if you wish to show that something may in fact come from this nothing, you can simply indicate that if there is nothing, then there is nothing to prevent something from coming into existence, and if you want to talk about the idea of nothing being nonsensical (even though it still is logically possible) you can simply turn to the ancient works of old, where they showed that proposing nothing within the scope of things which exist becomes entirely problematic, and then you can go from there. … After all, they ask, “How can something come from nothing?” One such religious notion is the story of creation: once upon a time there was nothing, and then, miraculously, there was something. It can’t account for anything since anything is something and something does not appear spontaneously from nothing. It is impossible to get from one point to another, because the distance can be infinitely divided in half, meaning any distance between two points is infinite. It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe comes to exist. Big Bang theory does not actually say that the universe came from nothing. In other words, the total amount of energy in the universe appears to be zero. That's something; that's not nothing." But there is a more interesting and complicated problem, which sheds light on further issues with the concept of nothing, but to get there we need to take a trip back in time to the Presocratics and the dawn of Natural Science. Absolute nothingness cannot produce something given endless time—in fact, there can be no time in absolute nothingness.” ((Abraham Varghese, “The ‘New Atheism’: A Critical Appraisal of Dawkins, Dennett, Wolpert, Harris, and Stenger,” in Anthony Flew with Abraham Varghese, There is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind (New York: HarperCollins, 2007), 170.)). The foundational points we can establish thus far are the following: 1. However, most physicists disagree. "In Stephen Hawking’s new book The Grand Design, he says that because of the law of gravity, the universe can and will create itself out of nothing. Concluding this, you can rest assured that even if you accept a definition of nothing as being “the absence of everything,” there is still no reason that something cannot come from nothing, and so it is on the shoulders of the YEC to state that something cannot come from nothing. Managed by Chittam Technology Solutions, LLC. ((Robert H. Helson, “Existence of God: The Rational Arguments from Mathematics to Human Consciousness,” Independent (May 17, 2017): http://bit.ly/2w1Fcli)). And to get from the halfway point to the destination you must go half way. Morse, Wilbur and Orville Wright, Werner von Braun, Raymond Damadian (inventor of the MRI), and many other scientists would be surprised to know this since modern scientists stand on the shoulders of these Christian scientists. These particles have tremendous density but we cannot observe them, for their observable characteristics cancel each other out. It seems that religious people are trying to hijack a “reasoning” or “scientific” method of approaching the argument, and it just doesn’t work. What about the “laws of physics”? He must steal that energy from the theistic power plant that he ridicules, misrepresents, and claims it doesn’t exist. Does this mean that love, compassion, morality, and a whole host of human emotions are nothing but mathematics? Something is something and nothing is nothing and to think otherwise is nonsense! It is quite possible that this statement is false, but it also can be true, and we are not able to … The something from nothing hypothesis is illogical, unscientific, and faith-based. Can Something Come From Nothing? Where did all the stuff in the universe come from and how is it still a law if it was once broken? The universe came from nothing. The creation of such particles is therefore never “out of nothing”—it is out of a preexisting space that is filled with energy. "Nothing" is not a type alternate reality. Man created the gods to ease their insecurity with their ignorance of that which they found significant in life. One cannot get a something from a nothing. This is the Reification fallacy, which I fell prey to while formulating my positions on this, in fact. Yet no one but the most ardent fundamentalists would suggest that that each and every such object is lovingly and painstakingly and, most importantly, purposely created by a divine intelligence. BUT I like to point out, IF nothing comes from nothing where did God get the material he needed to create things? [ ↩] 2. Given the First Law of Thermodynamics: that you can't get something from nothing. There has to be something or someone who created this and us. What makes them laws? Can something come from nothing? Although I suppose it could be argued that even ideas that are radically different and 'imaginative' are based off something else, in which case it would be 'no'. First, there is the issue that they must prove that something cannot come from nothing. Yes No Multiple votes are allowed. But the question came up: What is between these atoms? Pushkin October 19, 2002, 12:36pm #1. In English, this means that if there is nonexistence (nothing) between two atoms, then logically those two atoms must be touching, as there is nothing separating them. ((“Something Good” from The Sound of Music (1965). It’s not an understatement to say that the discovery has changed the playing field of modern cosmology. Am I being ignorant here or can something come from nothing? Or to put it more colloquially: in order to get from one point to another, first you must go halfway. If it were, it would cease to be nothing and become something. I don’t know of a single “fundamentalist” who has ever claimed that God designs every snowflake. 2. where nothing can be added or subtracted from the 'specimen'. You want to let go of your past and start on a new journey, but there is nothing for you to start off with. We can custom-write anything as well! The issue as you can see is that, in the end, the concept of nothing seems to be self-defeating in these contexts. The beginning and end links to the end and beginning. Here is this common misconception in a nutshell: “The universe couldn’t have possibly popped into existence out of nothing.” Quantum Physics is, in a way, the new kid on the block. Here is the Kraussian “science” behind it all: “our universe arose from precisely nothing.” So for Krauss, “nothing” must be “a kind of ‘something’” because “[a]bsolute nothingness means no laws, no vacuums, no fields, no energy, no structures, no physical or mental entities of any kind—and no ‘symmetries.’ It has no properties or potentialities. … So now we have established that something can come from nothing. After all, they cannot be observed and some physicists claim they’re just useful computational tools, not actually existing. I stand on the shoulders of Maxwell.’”, Maxwell’s work in the field of mathematical physics led to the invention of television, mobile phones, microwaves, and nuclear energy. What if mankind developed for a million years and became so smart that we would essentially be Gods. In the end, this would further prove the views of Parmenides and Zeno, that movement is impossible, since if there is an infinite number of atoms between point 1 and 2, then you could never traverse them, because you could infinitely bisect the number of atoms that separate 1 from 2. Someone realised apparantly that the universe could theoretically have come from nothing. Therefore, atoms are between atoms, which have more atoms between those atoms, and so on. Creatio ex nihilo (Latin for "creation out of nothing") refers to the belief that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act, frequently defined as God. It is the be all and end all of existence. And this problem goes on infinitely. What is there to stop something from popping into existence? Dr. Krauss is engaged in some evolutionary sleight of hand. The first version of this article, which I wrote all the way back in 1997, merely compiled a list of quotes from physicists affirming that something can indeed come from nothing through entirely natural processes, and that the entire universe might be one such thing. Something came from nothing due to god leads directly into the question Where did god come from. There are two ways in which one can go about dismissing the idea of “nothing” in regards to Democritus’ theory. But if all space in the universe was filled with matter and substance, where could these other atoms (like people) move into? If 'something' can come from nothing, then you would have to accept the fact that there are actually 2 states of nothing, one that supports the creation of 'something' and another that doesn't. To speak of creation Ex Nihilo does not mean that we have a "change" in substance from nothing to something. I'm skipping some crucial steps here, but that is the gist of it. You want to see a scientist, who doesn't believe in the existence of God, unravel and come unglued in front of your eyes??? Evolutionists must believe in “miracles” and “magic.” An evolutionist like Krauss can’t explain how the world works except to descend into irrationality. The beauty of Tryon’s suggestion is that the properties of this vacuum state can be calculated, so the question of how “nothing” became … Like a potter who needs his tools and clay, you can’t create something if there is nothing. My father who is a mechanical engineer seems to think that something cannot come from nothing but I think that he is wrong because my father evidently never heard of virtual particles and quantum field theory. Asked by: Rob Answer The law you cite, applies only to 'closed systems', i.e. Old King Lear has decided to retire and divide his kingdom among his three daughters. A vacuum might seem like empty space, but scientists have discovered a new way to seemingly get something from that nothingness, such as light. Any answer that solves this problem for god can probably also just be used to explain the universe itself instead. An idea can come from nothing. Many scientists assume that the universe came from nothing, which is an idea that can only be true in light of quantum theory. Democritus proposed that all things in the universe, all that exists, are made up of an indivisibly small particle which he called the Atom. The universe came from nothing. Can virtual particles come from nothing? And ironically, the laws of physics actually have been proven to exist now, whereas no God ever has. Well it is nothing at all, because everything that has existence is made of atoms, so the void is something non-existent. Only God can create something from Nothing in their minds. 2. So there you go, I saved the less mentally damaging for last. ... Jun 08, 2015: A universe from nothing by: Anonymous When scientists say that the universe can simply come out of nothing without any divine intervention, they think of the universe in terms of its energy content only. It is the be all and end all of existence. Edited June 9, 2011 by disappointedyoungman The foundational points we can establish thus far are the following: 1. I hope you enjoyed the (very long) collaboration today. To most people, the claim that something cannot come from nothing is a truism. henry higgins says: August 1, 2019 at 11:02 am. Ask them where did the first matter come from? have gone so far to say that the cosmos—including us—“is nothing but mathematics.” ((Max Tegmark, “The Great Math Mystery,” NOVA.)) So, let’s looks at the options of how something can come from nothing. This is where all parties can fall into a fallacy, because we have to distinguish that just because we treat something as an object within language, that doesn’t make it a real object (unicorns aren’t real, even though when discussing them, we talk about them in terms of real things). Ok, where did God come from? There are numerous issues that one would then encounter, because there is no logical reason why something cannot come from nothing (the absence of existence). Creatio ex nihilo (Latin for "creation out of nothing") refers to the belief that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act, frequently defined as God. “Something can’t come from nothing, so their must be a God” (cosmological, or First Cause, argument) is not only a non sequitur when defending ones religious claims, it is also not a very good argument on its own merit. From the Philosophical definition, no, but "nothing" can't be shown to ever have existed, so it's a moot point. They couldn’t because all of space would be filled. Lawrence M. Krauss is a renowned cosmologist and professor of the School of Earth and Space Exploration at Arizona State University_._ He is the author of numerous articles and books, including the best-selling _The Physics of Star Trek_ and _A Universe from Nothing_ that includes an Afterword from atheist provocateur Richard Dawkins_._ Krauss is an outspoken atheist, evolutionist, and anti-Christian. We now have two competing schools of thought, those following the Eleatic School and those Atomists who don’t at all agree. Imagination allows that to be possible. There simply never has been nothing. Second, they have to distinguish if they mean Scientific Nothing (which is still very much something, read Lawrence Krauss if you don’t believe me), or Philosophical Nothing (the absence of existence). In the end, the curse that Zeno and Parmenides plagued us with remains: motion is impossible, because between any two points there are an infinite number of atoms (thank goodness for Limitations and Calculus). 0. One of the most fundamental questions of all time nicely dealt with by the guys on the Atheist Experience. There is no "nothing" in space and never was. Like Reply Challenge. But I have problems with several of the other posts on this opinion thread: 1. First, that’s a great Sci-Fi book concept, and I thought of it. True, there certainly is no evidence that something can come from nothing, so we must either appeal to some logical argument, or we must appeal to some faith-claim or revelatory insight. Thus, they argued that a void of non-existence had to be present in order for there to be a space for atoms to move into. From the scientific definition, something MUST come from nothing based on quantum theory. What is the void? 1. 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